Actually, minivans are pretty rad.

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 02/07/2014 at 10:45 • Filed to: None

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This comes up time and again here on oppo, where somebody posts something like " !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ," and everyone for the most part agrees that minivans should be avoided like the plague, even though minivans are actually awesome.

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People whose vehicular needs are best met by a minivan but can't get over themselves and whine about having to drive a minivan, are only cheating themselves out of having the best possible tool for the job of ferrying around some brats and all the associated crap that comes along with them.

Why should you listen to me? Because I drove a Miata for 4 years and endured an endless supply of comments from my friends questioning my manhood, sexual orientation, and if I wasn't actually 67 years old instead of 23. But I drove it anyway, because Miatas are awesome, and I liked my Miata.

I also spent plenty of time driving my mom's old Chrysler Town & Country. I even took it to an industrial part of Philadelphia and used it to be a blocker for illegal drag racing. In 2001. Before Fast & Furious even came out .

So I present to you, a conversation between me and a hypothetical person who doesn't want a minivan.

"This other vehicle is just as good as a minivan for carrying around my brats and their crap."

No, actually it's not. Minivans are great at what they do. They're comfy, they have super reconfigurable seating, they have all kinds of storage bins, they have eleventy billion cup holders, some even have intercoms where you can yell at your kids over the stereo to quit hitting each other, and the Honda Odyssey has a built in Shop-Vac for cleaning up after your little hellions. And yet with all this capability, minivans aren't all that huge.

We love wagons because they give the utility of an SUV but drive like a car. Minivans give the utility of an even-bigger SUV and still sorta drive like a car. What do you think handles better in the twisties: an Odyssey or a Tahoe?

"I don't want to drive a mommy mobile."

You know what makes you look like a parent? Your KIDS. It doesn't matter what vehicle they step out of with you. If the little bastards are coming along for the ride, news flash, people are going to know you have kids. What are you going to do, walk around with them and tell everyone who walks past that these aren't your kids, you're just watching them for your sister?

Sweet sunglasses bro.

"This other vehicle that's almost as good as a minivan at ferrying around my kids doesn't look like a mommy mobile."

Actually, yes, it does. Your Highlander, Pilot, Murano, Traverse, etc doesn't exactly scream "I'm young and fun and like to party and I'm running in Time Attack this weekend."

"But I only have 1.78 kids."

Don't you carpool? What are you, antisocial or something?

"I have kids and it snows where I live."

Time for an all-wheel drive minivan.

"I have kids and I need to tow a boat/trailer/something else really heavy."

Do you actually own this heavy thing you need to tow, or are you just saying that? If yes, ok fine, get that full-size truck based SUV.

But still. Minivans are awesome.

Jagvar > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 10:49

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Not sure if it counts as a minivan, but I'd rock a Eurovan in a heartbeat.

ddavidn > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 10:51

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Sure. If we can count my old '89 MPV as a minivan, they can be awesome. Wish I still had it. I'd also accept a Eurovan or a Routan if I had kids. (I know it's a Caravan and I'm OK with this)

Also, I agree with your point, but I think people go crazy when they have a baby. If you have one or two kids, you can easily make do with a wagon unless you're taking other people's kids all over the place. My source is growing up as an only child until I was eight and then having a baby brother, we only had wagons for a long time and we did fine. Never had a minivan.

Casper > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 10:56

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Yes, minivans are good at the things they were designed for. Unfortunately, none of those things are important to people who are talking about buying cars for pleasure. They are for a very specific demographic. Someone who has spawned so many times they can no longer fit their brood in a normal vehicle.

The reality is minivans are rubbish to 90% of the population, but amazing to 10% of the population. No matter what, I think they make more sense than most SUVs.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 10:58

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Because MR drift van...

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:00

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The problem is minivans are FWD usually, they look dumb, and dumb people drive them. My mom has an 05 Odyssey and it's the base model so there isn't even power sliding doors! (which obviously is the best part of any Minivan.) The only way minivans can be cool is if manufacturers do what they do to wagons. Performance versions. I want a Honda Odyssey Type R, a RWD Chrysler Town & Country SRT-8 (or 10 lol), a TRD Sienna with a 2JZ!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:01

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I would submit the below:

I wish i had a pic, but it was before I carried an iPotato, ManDroid, or WinFaux, so there is no SR20, but about 12 years ago I saw a then-new Gen III short wheelbase AWD Caravan with a full cage, no interior, racing seats, and a hole cut through the floor for the stick shift. Had New Hampshire plates and was complete with tall (probably hydraulic) handbrake lever and fart-can exhaust as big around as my leg. I don't know what exactly it had under the hood, but it had turbos, appeared to be a V6 and it was still AWD (could tell that looking underneath)... exterior totally stock appearance except for the wheels, tires, and exhaust outlet. I wish I had gotten to see it leave the parking space it was in, but I was late...

Textured Soy Protein > ddavidn 02/07/2014 at 11:02

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MPV totally counts. The family across the street from me growing up had a first gen MPV. When their dad drove us around in it he used the sweet cup holder mounted to the passenger seat to hold a regular non-travel coffee mug. I always used to think it would spill but it never did.

ddavidn > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:05

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I hauled my drums in it. Much easier than a Suburban or similar. But now I move them in an Outback Sport and that works great too.

Forgetful > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:05

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No.

You can have fun with a minivan. You can do awesome things in a minivan. The minivan itself, however is awful.

It's a tool, not a toy. We use tools and desire toys. The only vehicle that can be both is the Wagon. You have function without a lack of appealing form. You have powertrain options all the way up to high performance tirm levels.

HammerheadFistpunch > Jagvar 02/07/2014 at 11:06

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you know, I had a friend with one of those, imagine the power of a Jetta in the body of whale. Thats a eurovan!

Tekamul > Forgetful 02/07/2014 at 11:09

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you have function

Yes, just not as much function. Everything's a compromise.

Textured Soy Protein > Forgetful 02/07/2014 at 11:09

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I agree that as performance cars, wagons are better than minivans. Not disputing that.

But...a wagon just isn't enough for many people with kids. I'm one of 3 siblings. When my sister (the youngest) was born, my mom had an awesome '89 Taurus wagon. Fully loaded. We fought over who got to sit in the way-back seat. Because we got to sit backwards! We were those brats who would make stupid faces at the car behind us.

But once my sister turned like 4 or 5, it was minivan time and we didn't look back. It was the best.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:11

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My father in law convinced me of the power of the van. Dude is tough, he's 70 and he climbs mount Whitney or rainier every year, in addition to all regular biking hiking stuff. He is constantly fixing something for someone or at one of his rental properties and travels across country once a year to visit his kids and fix their stuff. He drives a VW routan. He had a v10 ram, but hated it and sold it. Its a comfy ride when in people mode, its hauls anything you could fit in a truck (within reason) including plywood and building supplies and it gets decent mileage. Plus its easy to drive and park and the 4.0 with the upgraded dampers/bushings actually make it a decent drive. what it is, is a taller FWD Volvo 240 wagon.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:12

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I drive a 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan and I love it. It's not my only car, though I'm 19. I use it to carry my tools and supplies for home improvements. I honestly have to say that it is a fun vehicle to drive. It has plenty of pickup, relatively nimble, and I have been able to oversteer it going around an on-ramp (will not attempt again). Jalops who are against them most likely haven't really driven one long enough, or maybe it's just a terrible stigma.

Forgetful > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:12

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My takeaway from your reply:

Wagons sometimes had awesome backwards seats.

Forgetful > Tekamul 02/07/2014 at 11:13

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A minivan is not a compromise, it's surrender. Don't have 4 kids.

Textured Soy Protein > Casper 02/07/2014 at 11:15

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I'm one of 3 siblings. My mom got a '96 Town & Country minivan once the youngest of the 3 (my sister) got to be 5, because we had outgrown our '89 Taurus wagon.

According to the 2010 census, there are 7.1 million families in the US with 3 or more kids.

Forgetful > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:16

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If you have too many kids don't get a minivan, get two wagons.

HammerheadFistpunch > ddavidn 02/07/2014 at 11:16

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my beef with the minivan is summed up in my sister. She has 2 small children (4 and 1) and she NEEDED a GMC Acadia, so they bought one, but to stay in budget it was FWD...in Utah. She decided about a year later that she didn't like hiking kids up into an suv with no real benefits (duh) and she told her very kind and accommodating husband that she needed a minivan. Bear in mind she still only has 2 kids, no pets and is not pregnant (though she would like to have more). Her response has always been "If I know Im going to have more kids why not get the car ill want now?" To which I say..."because you don't need it now, wait until you need it and then buy it from the person who paid for those years of depreciation" Never sinks in.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 02/07/2014 at 11:18

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Used to drive AWD GMC Astros for work... Drift All The Backroads, especially with some weight in the back ;) before that one of my company vehicles was an '85 turbo Caravan with a stick. That was really more fun than it should have been.

Tekamul > Forgetful 02/07/2014 at 11:20

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Or 2 kids with any friends. Make sure your kids don't have friends, then you can protect them from the horrors of a tall wagon with electric doors.

Casper > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:21

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5 people fit in sedans fine. The average size of a family in the US is still an average of 2.5 to 2.9 depending on the area. Nearly twice as many have 2 children, and almost 6 times or whatever don't have kids. So you are talking about a minority even at 5 people in the family... and an even smaller minority if you have 6+ which would truly justify a 7 person vehicle.

Textured Soy Protein > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 02/07/2014 at 11:22

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So what you're saying is...your mom is dumb?

ddavidn > HammerheadFistpunch 02/07/2014 at 11:23

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Yes, precisely. She could, in my mind, make an Allroad work for her. Or an Outback or whatever Subaru makes now to tote four people around in.

The other thing that I hate is when people just "buy them for the safety" and then drive like a maniac.

Forgetful > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:26

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You know what also sells really well? Camries and Corollas. That doesn't make them rad.

You're allowed to like your car(s), no matter what they are. You're not allowed to tell people that shitty cars are rad just because you like yours.

Also your only argument seems to be that minivans haul kids. That's not 'rad' by any definition.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:27

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With her choices in cars yes. Although her first car she bought was a Camaro lol which isn't terrible

vicariousILive > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:28

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Friggn' Toyota 4x4 minivan... maybe if more minivans were like this then maybe they wouldn't get such a hard time.

i came pretty dang close to driving from Maine from the Utah to buying one of these. I would love to turn it into a mini sportmobile.

Textured Soy Protein > Casper 02/07/2014 at 11:29

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We made do for a few years with 3 kids and a wagon. But once it got to be a 5, 10 and 14 year old, it just didn't work any more. We would occasionally pile into my dad's Mercedes E420 (which I would say is a pretty typical mid-size back seat) but the 3 of us kids across the back seat was pretty cramped.

Take the family on a week long trip and where is all their stuff going to fit? What happens if your kids actually have friends and you need to give one or two of them a ride?

Casper > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:31

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Again, that's an extreme minority. It's a subset of a subset with an additional specialization requirement. I would wager 90:10 was even being optimistic for the number of people who truly need a van/suv.

yamahog > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 11:44

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Hey now, I don't have anything against minivans, the anti-sweatpants coworker does! My mom even had a massive Chevy conversion van and just three kids. I agree with your points, and obviously there are sacrifices inherent to parenting, but I'd be a shit parent, therefore not planning on kids ever and I can stick with the motorcycle and loud rickety lifted Jeep.

JGrabowMSt > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 12:17

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As a child of the 90's, my family had Minivans. We actually still have one (and I'll let you know when I figure out why).

They were all Chryslers. Caravan, Grand Caravan SE, Voyager. What my parents got were not cool to even the slightest degree.

My parents decided to have 4 kids (well, I was the bonus, want 3, get one free). Growing up, I really can't think of one single reason why we couldn't have gotten wagons instead, other than the fact that my parents are stubborn. Every single one had problems. Is that really what happens when you have 6 people in a car? The old silver one crapped out long before I had any idea about cars other than they were supposed to be cool. The (old) Green van eventually crapped out from just being old. The White van had computer trouble, heater trouble, brake trouble, and everything inside had a habit of breaking. Airbag light was one since we replaced the heater core and uplugged the airbag and plugged it back in. Dear god that was terrifying.

Yes, have your 11 year old handle the airbag, while telling him it could kill him if he did the wrong thing with it. Honesty is not the best policy when dealing with children.

So then came the latest green van. It served a sort of purpose. It had seats that could recline. All of the previous minivans, combined with several hour long day trips on the worst seats in the world, had already caused me to develop pretty bad scoliosis by the time I was a sophomore in high school. It doesn't really give you bragging rights, or anything cool to bring to the table. Sometimes your back hurt too much to even go to the table.

Anyway, my uncle passed away, and lived something around 1500 miles away. So my parents pulled the two bench seats out of the fan (which also sports a sliding door on BOTH sides), drove down to his property, and began dealing with everything there. They packed the van to the gills (if vans had gills), and drove it back home a few weeks later. Shortly afterwards though, it developed a leaky oil pan. When I was in high school though, the power steering pump ate itself. I guess it sucks to get that hungry.

But that was the only van which really ever had any reason for that much cargo space. No other van had been filled even close to that capacity. Sure, when my one sister moved out, the white Grand Caravan SE was used to transport furniture, however it was used primarily because my parents were dead set on being involved in that process. There were a pair of larger SUVs that were ready and waiting, but had to be called off in an effort to prevent an argument. Needless to say, only one of my other siblings speaks to the one that moved out. We don't really get along the way families are supposed to. Maybe the vans are to blame.

There's nothing stopping a wagon from pulling a trailer, or seating 5 (even more in some) comfortably, and sometimes amusingly (for the passenger at the very least). They're like the SUVs of today. They're everywhere, no one truthfully enjoys them (owners or other people on the road), but no one will get rid of them. They're just as bad in snow as anything else, but who can admit to that either?

In the end, I feel the minivan was for people who felt wagons were too sporty, and they didn't want that. They're for non-car people. That's why they're purgatory for car people. Sure, a tuner can throw 1000+ horsepower into one, but in the end, it's still a minivan. If you need a minivan to pack the kids and suitcases and other things in life, maybe you're just bringing too much shit along. If you need sliding doors, maybe you just park too close to other people (I do understand the point of sliding doors, but hate them anyway). Maybe you expect to park in the first two spots at the mall, instead of parking towards the back, and I don't know, walking an extra few steps. Maybe 'Murica just needs to be overweight, underpowered, and ugly. I just can't get behind that.

It's time for Europeans and Aussies to stop having all the cool toys and hot women. Give me wagon, or give me death!

Grindintosecond > Textured Soy Protein 02/07/2014 at 13:13

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Alternative bought is the SUV. Sport-minivan handles better. Utility-Minivan carrys more with more ride comfort. Vehicle-gets bettet mileage and again rides better. 3-0 minivan!

Textured Soy Protein > Forgetful 02/07/2014 at 14:03

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So...I'm not saying that we should all go out and by minivans. What my post is talking about, is how a lot of the people who have a reason to buy a 3-row vehicle wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan, and buy a 3-row SUV or crossover instead.

If you compare a 3-row minivan, 3-row crossover, and 3-row truck-based SUV, the minivan is the best at hauling kids, handles better, and gets better mileage.

But "minivans are rad if you have kids or some other reason to purchase a 3-row vehicle" doesn't make for quite as good of a headline.

Textured Soy Protein > Casper 02/07/2014 at 14:04

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And my post is about people who should get a minivan, but instead get an SUV/crossover because they're too insecure to drive a minivan. Not that everyone who gets a car should get a minivan.

Textured Soy Protein > yamahog 02/07/2014 at 14:06

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Didn't mean to single you out. My reply to your post inspired me to make this post though. ;)

blargolapse1 > Forgetful 02/07/2014 at 22:12

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Surrender to what? Life? Woops, I had quintuplets. Looks like I surrendered!

dogisbadob > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 09:48

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Those first two pics are awesome! I love the red minivan burnout, and the kid on a leash made me crack up!

But yeah, minivans get too much hate. I like the Kia Rondo and Mazda 5, the latter being upgradeable with MS3 parts.

Nibby > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 09:53

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Question for you... if you were to buy a minivan, which one and why?

Personally I'd choose a new Sienna cause... dat room for 8x4

DeltawingGothamDeserves > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 09:57

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The thing I don't get is people who have two children, that apparently need a Chevy Tahoe. Why? Why can't you have gotten a sensible sedan, or something cooler that doesn't take up 30ft of traffic space? When you have a family of four, you don't need three rows of seats.

awe46m3zcp > DeltawingGothamDeserves 02/08/2014 at 10:06

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When the grandparents come by (which is often) you need seating for 6. I volunteered to stay home when they came by and wanted to go somewhere (so they would only need seating for 5). That didnt work so well.

coqui70 > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 10:31

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What other vehicle can take 6 people in great comfort (instead of a truckish ride) 1600 miles in 2 days, with reasonable fuel economy and guaranteed invisibility (not even a glance from a state trooper through 7 states - maroon baby!), cruising at 80mph (avg) and provide the ever-loving-power-sliding-doors, DVD players, 12+ cup holders, reclining seats, multiple power outlets and outward visibility to make a roadtrip awesome? 2008 Toyota Sienna (LE FWD V6) - paid for and out of warranty now so looking for ideas to *ahem* expand the performance envelope. Plenty of low-end grunt already available so thinking forced induction, beefed up transmission, handling upgrades and a stealth tire/wheel combo.

Textured Soy Protein > DeltawingGothamDeserves 02/08/2014 at 11:05

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Kids make friends. Sometimes you give your kids' friends a ride. This is what minivans are for.

Textured Soy Protein > Nibby 02/08/2014 at 11:45

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I'd have to drive them to see which one I like, but I think I might lean toward a Caravan or Town & Country for the stow-n-go captain's chairs.

Harrison Voorhees > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 11:58

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I will not join this cult.

iDriveCode3 > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 12:46

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If I had authorship, I would have written this in the past few weeks. I think I hit all the Jalop/Oppo credentials; I have an Evo IX that runs on ethanol and hits 450 whp on the dyno. I have a big ass Dodge bro-truck, complete with 5.1 Hemi, lift kit, and 35"'s. I have a Jetta Sportwagen TDI. I even have a Crown Vic detective's car for the next few years.

But we also have a Honda Civic. I adopted a newborn yesterday. He's now not quite 48 hours old. He's perfect. I can't wait to bring him home to my four year-old. When I look into my crystal ball, I see what you see. I see my kids, their cousins, friends, sports teams, field trips, and vacations. Even the venerated JSW can't handle that. Two car seats makes it a four-seater real quick. There is nothing else to fill the gap like a minivan can.

There does seem to be a lot of anti-minivan sentiment around here, but it's clearly from folks without families. When I was sixteen, I didn't want to drive the blue Dodge Grand Caravan - but I did when I had to (the '74 Caddy that we somehow had during the 90's was much more fun). But as someone with a family, and damn proud of it, I'm actually excited to ditch the Civic and go minivan shopping.

 > Textured Soy Protein 02/08/2014 at 13:11

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Time for a new tranny.

Doctor-G-and-the-wagen > Casper 02/13/2014 at 22:22

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I never have enough space in my car to fit in that extra half or 90% whole child, and Children's Services frowns on putting the torso that is one's daughter into the trunk.